Interview with Benazir Bhutto´s sister in law, Ghinwa Bhutto

I am currently in Pakistan. Some days ago I interviewed (over the phone) Benazir Bhutto´s sister in law, Ghinwa Bhutto.

Here is the story:

She has just returned from the funeral, on Friday December 28th, of her sister in law, Benazir Bhutto. Her attendence there was, in some ways, a small miracle. Because Ghinwa Bhutto isn’t only family of Benazir Bhutto, she is also her bitter rival.

This is Dallas and Dynasty – the Pakistani way.

Because Ghinwa and Benazir did not speak to each other for years. Even worse: Ghinwa, who was married to Benazir’s brother Murtaza Bhutto, has for years campaigned against Benazir and her spouse Asif Ali Zardari. This because she accuses Zardari of involvement in the murder of her husband Murtaza.

"But on Friday Benazir was no longer my political enemy," she says, in a telephone interview from the Bhutto residence in the Pakistani town of Larhkana near Karachi, "From that moment, she was again the daughter of this house."

Who does she think was behind the kiling of Benazir?

“It is unwise to say it right now,” she says, “But I’m sure there are a lot of candidates. It could be Islamic radicals. But as we have seen in Lebanon and Iraq that only where America goes, Islamic radicals show up.”

In 1996, Murtaza Bhutto - Ghinwa's husband and Benazir's brother – was killed by police in Karachi. Murtaza (see picture) was a radical leftist who after the 1979 murder of his father, the legendary Zulfikar Ali Bhutto, fled into the mountains and began a not very successful armed uprising against the then military regime of General Zia ul Haq. During his days as a socialst rebel, Murtaza went to Afghanistan (unconfirmed rumours say he received aid from pro-Soviet forces). During the eighties he travelled through socialist parts of the Muslim world.

He visited Beirut, where he got in touch with left wing groups busy fighting Islamist-, Israeli- or other left wing forces during Lebanon’s civil war. After Beirut, Murtaza Bhutto moved to Damascus. Here he met Ghinwa Itaoui, a girl from the Lebanese city of Tripoli who lived most of her life in Beirut but moved in 1984 to Damascus. After their marriage, in 1989, Ghinwa Itaoui became Ghinwa Bhutto.

When Zia ul Haq himself died, in 1987 during a plane crash, a power struggle erupted between Benazir Bhutto and her brother Murtazar.

The question was: Who would be the best successor to their father Zulfikar?

Benazir and her husband Zardari won this fight, Murtaza and Ghinwa “lost”, leaving them outside the powerfull circle of Benazir, her husband Zardari and other prominent members of the Pakistan Peoples Party (PPP). In 1993 Murtaza, along with Ghinwa, left Damascus and moved back to Karachi, Pakistan.

At the end of Benazir’s second period as a Prime Minister, in 1996, Murtaza was shot dead by police in Karachi. According to Ghinwa Bhutto, the killers acted on behalf of Benazir’s husband Asif Ali Zardari.

This, as she believes, because he regarded Murtaza as a threat to Benazir’s position as the political leader of the Bhutto family. Zardari has stronly denied any involvement in the murder of Benazir’s brother.

From that moment on, Ghinwa at one hand and Benazir and Zardari on the other weren’t – so to say – on speaking terms. Bascially, they hated each other.

So picture Friday’s burial of Benazir. Present are, among others, two people: Ghinwa Bhutto and Asif Ali Zardar. Both married into the Bhutto family. Both, by now, without husband and wife. Ghinwa, a widow since 1996; Zardari, a widower since Thursday, December 27th.

Both sat, according to Ghinwa Bhutto, opposite to each other in a room, close to the burrial site.

"Zardari did not even come near me, he stayed away from me," says Ghinwa Bhutto, "You see,” she continues, “Mr. Zardari is somehow considered responsible by the people of Pakistan for the death of my husband. And this is very much on his consience, that’s why we did not speak. We did though speak to the children of Benazir.”

An awkward moment?

“It was more awkward to him than to me,” Ghinwa Bhutto says, “Because I was always open to hear his justification [for killing Murtaza] but I have never heard from him. So that [the burrial of Benazir] was the moment for him to do that, but (he)didn’t. Maybe they are under shock, I think they are stil a little bit disfunctional.”

Cinically, the death of Benazir has turned Ghinwa and Zardari again into rivals. This time not about the question who will succeed father Zulfikar Ali Bhutto, but daughter Benazir Bhutto.

On Sunday, the PPP consulted the will of Benazir Bhutto. And according to it, Benazir's eldest child, the 19-year-old Bilawal, was appointed her successor. But because a Member of Parliament in Pakistan must be at least 25 years old, Benazir's husband Zardari will effectively lead the PPP until Bilawal turns 25. Benazir’s political will did not mention Ghinwa.

Ghinwa Bhutto never was a serious contender for taking over Benazir’s role. Since 1996, when she publically started accusing Zardari of masterminding the killing of her husband, she hasn’t been very popular among the mainstream PPP.

"The successor to Benazir must meet two criteria," she says, "First you have to be a Bhutto, secondly, you have to be a socialist, because otherwise you do not draw voters."

According to Ghinwa Bhutto, Zardari is none of the two.

“I actually think there has never been a real replecement for Zulfikar Bhutto,” she says, “Since his killing, there is a vacuum and nobody, not even Benazir, has been able to fill that.’

Ghinwa Bhutto, who heads a small Sindh based political party named PPP-Shaheed Bhutto, has a 25 year old daughter, Fatima. Unlike Asif Ali Zardari and Ghinwa Itaoui Bhutto (who were married into the Bhutto family), Fatima is born a Bhutto because her father, the murdered Murtaza, was one. And Fatima, in some ways, is even more a Bhutto than Benazir’s son Bilawal. This because, according to Muslim tradition, you take the family name of your father, not your mother. So Bilawal Bhutto is actually Bilawal Zardari, while Fatima – whatever happens - is Fatima Bhutto.

“My daughter is a an activist,” Ghinwa Bhutto says, “But she doesn’t want to be limited by party politics or only focus on running for parlimanent. She wants to wait a little bit more.”

Time will tell who, eventually, succeeds Benazir Bhutto. That is, in case of the Bhutto´s, if there will be enough time to tell.

Harald Doornbos

ON EVE OF CERTAIN CONFRONTATION, PAKISTAN SET FOR IRAN 1979-SCENARIO?

Prepare yourself for big riots in Rawalpindi, near Islamabad, on Friday. Supporters of Benazir Bhutto will defy a ban on public gatherings there. And since the protests will start right after Friday prayer, there is a very big chance religious right wingers will join in.

Just to be clear; Bhutto's PPP-party is a, more or less, left leaning, secular party. The Islamists are extreme right wingers, trying to establish Sharia law in Pakistan. Both sides, again more or less, work together these days because of their common hatred towards president Pervez Musharraf. It all smells a little like Iran in 1979 on the eve of the fall of the American backed Shah and the start of the Shi'ite Islamic revolution.

What many, especially secular demonstrators, do not seem to realize is this: What if Musharraf is ousted? What then?!

Compare it to three people fighting for one chair.

At the moment, Musharraf sits on it. But two other persons - who formed an alliance -really would like to kick his butt and take over his seat. Let's assume Musharraf's butt is indeed kicked. What will follow is a fight between the two others, because - hey - there is only one chair and one seat available.

We've seen this before in Iran 1979. Secular left and Islamic extreme right together against the shah. And after his fall, the secular leftists were wiped out by the islamists. 28 years later, they still run the show in Iran.

In Pakistan too, there is only one chair. And although secular Islam can count on my support, they have no chance of winning the battle with the islamists, who have shown - over and over again - to be extremely ruthless in dealing with an enemy they consider anti-Islamic.

Anyhow, on the eve of this almost certain violent confrontation between Musharraf's police and anti-Musharraf protesters, just enough time to post two innocent pictures from Pakistan.

The first one I took today, in Rawalpindi (with mobile phone) and shows how the Pakistani police deals with parking violators. Hilarious but effective! Will they use this tomorrow as well to remove demonstrators? Who knows...


I took this second pic some days ago, while aboard a PIA plane travelling from Karachi to Islamabad. It´s around 05.20 in the morning, we just took off. It is praying time. Old man walks up to the stewardess, asks if he can role out his prayer rug. No problem, she says. He starts praying next to the front door. I took the pic from my seat. Just to be clear: We were 10 kms up in the air of course. Pretty cute actually. Only in Pakistan!


Harald Doornbos

POLL: MUSHARRAF AND BHUTTO SHOULD WORK TOGETHER

Ok, for what it is worth: A majority of Harryzzz readers wants Pakistani president Pervez Musharraf and ex-PM Benazir Bhutto to join ranks and fight Islamic militants together.

This is the - surprisingly - reasonable result of a recent Harryzzz poll (see right side on your screen). The Musharraf-Bhutto tango was supported by 55 percent of voters.

But 33 percent wants Musharraf to "screw it" and declare a full scale war against the jehadi's. It seems Musharraf is listening, check out here.

Only three percent (actually, just one voter) thinks it is high time for Musharraf to pack his bags and resign. (Harryzzz will try to find out if this voter is a certain Saudi chap hanging out in Pakistan's tribal areas)

Seven percent of voters (two persons) answered: What or where is Pakistan? It seems pretty obvious where these two votes came from.... Check here. (But why vote twice Mr. President - this ain't Florida!)

Harald Doornbos

Give Fatah al Islam a phone call….

Salim Abu Taha, the spokesman of the Al-Qaeda inspired group Fatah al Islam in Lebanon, was supposed to be dead. He died, according to the Lebanese media, a couple of weeks ago during heavy fighting around the Nahr al Bared refugee camp in the north of the country.

That obviously wasn't true. Because Abu Taha was arrested this saturday by Lebanese authorities, hiding in the bushes outside the camp. This all two weeks after the Lebanese army defeated Fatah al Islam and took the camp. A couple of days ago we saw the same saga concerning Al Absi, the leader of the group. First he was killed, then he escaped, later he was dead again and his body identified by his wife. DNA made it eventually clear that it wasn't Al Absi after all.

So HARRYZZZ now gives you the unique opportunity to check yourself what happened to Abu Taha. Here is his mobile telephone number:

Readers in Lebanon call: 70-816085
Readers outside Lebanon call: 00 961 70-816085

I've spoken to Salim Abu Taha a couple of days before the fighting broke out in May this year. He is somewhere in his late twenties, early thirties. And to me he was very polite and friendly.

I can guarantee this is his cell phone number, but I have no clue if he will pick up the phone. Last time I tried (during the fighting) a recorded voice said: "This telephone is switched off, please try again later."

Well, good luck and let me know if you managed to speak to the guy! Please ask him if is he is free, arrested or dead (or went undercover to Kenya).

Harald Doornbos

Transcript of speech Osama bin Laden

I'm preparing a rather lengthy article on Al-Qaeda, to be published on - surprise, surprise - September 11th. It is based on my experiences and interviews with members and sympathisers of Al Qaeda in Pakistan and in Lebanon.

Due to popular believe, Al Qaeda is seen in many circles as a mainly political movement with a political agenda. Basically, these people say, Al Qaeda is an organisation which uses terror (or resistance) to give a voice to oppressed muslims. The moment the West stops oppressing muslims, Al-Qaeda will stop too.

I wish that was true. But it is, unfortunately, not the case.

Al-Qaeda is very much a medieval Doomsday sect with surprisingly little politics in it. If you really want to understand what Al-Qaeda is all about, you have to step away from politics, away from life in the 21st century. Al-Qaeda is all about a mix of religion (rigidly imitating the Prophet Muhammad), cultural elements (keeping the Arab world and muslim South Asia as backward as possible) and an immense fear factor (for Western-led globalisation and its effects on the muslim mind)

I wish Al-Qaeda was political. Then at least there would be an end in sight to the war. But, as I said, it is not and thus much more difficult to stop.

In his latest speech Bin Laden immediately makes my point. He asks himself how the War in Iraq can be stopped?

You might answer: Well, maybe if the Americans pull out of Iraq.

Or if the US would stop supporting Israel.

Or if the Palestinians get their own state.

Well, Osama's answer is none of the above. His solution: Either we step up our attacks and win the war militarily or you Americans reject your democratic system and embrace Islam.


Wow - that is soooo realistic. Luckily he doesn't want us to perform the silly walk during weekdays.

Anyway, hope you will read my article on September 11th(Tuesday). For those interested in Bin Ladens weird world, please read the full transcript of his speech:

"All praise is due to God, who built the heavens and earth in justice, and created man as a favor and grace from Him. And from His ways is that the days rotate between the people, and from His Law is retaliation in kind: an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth and the killer is killed. And all praise is due to God, who awakened His slaves’ desire for the Garden, and all of them will enter it except those who refuse. And whoever obeys Him alone in all of his affairs will enter the Garden, and whoever disobeys Him will have refused."

For rest of speech: click here

You can get it as well in a pdf file, although the text is not very clear. for pdf, click here.

Harald Doornbos